tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post2335243140621648474..comments2023-03-26T03:55:56.387-04:00Comments on The Empirical Infidel: Is Freshwater Losing Supporters?The Empirical Infidelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13791921727572467800noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post-27600810698000739282010-01-29T21:30:43.153-05:002010-01-29T21:30:43.153-05:00Sam leaves out a few details that might help. For...Sam leaves out a few details that might help. For example, he said<br /><br /><i>Back in 2003 Mr. Freshwater submitted a proposal to the school labeled “Objective Origins Science Policy.” The Science Curriculum Committee interpreted the proposal as being about teaching Intelligent Design.</i><br /><br />That interpretation was possibly based on the fact that Freshwater's proposal identified the source of the policy as "www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org." That's the outfit run by John Calvert, one of those who worked to inject ID into both the Kansas and Ohio state science standards some time back.<br /><br />Documentary evidence and independent testimony in the hearing have shown that Freshwater has used handouts and videos that directly or indirectly advocated for ID creationism and that contained specious critiques of the modern theory of evolution. Indeed, the main support he offered for his 2003 proposal was two documents written by Jonathan Wells, a Fellow of the Discovery Institute, the most prominent organization pushing intelligent design. They were <a href="http://www.iconsofevolution.com/tools/questions.php3" rel="nofollow">Ten questions to ask your biology teacher</a> and <a href="http://www.discovery.org/a/1209" rel="nofollow">Survival of the Fakest</a>, the latter a summary of Wells' "Icons of Evolution," an anti-evolution screed that at one time was featured by the Discovery Institute as a primary source for intelligent design information.<br /><br />For more than you want to know about the Freshwater hearing see <a href="http://pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.fcgi?IncludeBlogs=2&limit=20&offset=0&search=Freshwater" rel="nofollow">Panda's Thumb</a>.RBHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13562135000111792590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post-45579584396721937812010-01-06T21:35:33.600-05:002010-01-06T21:35:33.600-05:00The quote from the Mount Vernon News is probably c...The quote from the Mount Vernon News is probably correct. Your original statement, that I referred to, sounded to me like you were surprised that Mr. Freshwater was taking the position that he had never taught creationism. Perhaps I misunderstood and you were more focusing on the part about Mr. Freshwater being “opposed to the teaching of creationism” in school. <br /><br />Some background information: Back in 2003 Mr. Freshwater submitted a proposal to the school labeled “Objective Origins Science Policy.” The Science Curriculum Committee interpreted the proposal as being about teaching Intelligent Design. The wording of the proposal did have one phrase that left open, based on how it is interpreted, the possibility of teaching ID—but Mr. Freshwater did preface the proposal with an explanation that said the policy was a “suggested policy statement.” When he sent a follow-up letter, he stated that “Myself, and others who support this proposal have made every effort to clarify that this is not a religious issue. My proposal only requests that our school system be allowed to critically analyze the theory of evolution. It does not request the teaching of creation or intelligent design.” (If the suggested policy was re-worded it might have avoided the possible interpretation of allowing for the teaching of ID.)<br /><br />Mr. Freshwater has definitely wanted the school to teach the subject of evolution differently—although he has not lobbied for the teaching of creationism or ID.<br /><br />When I previously read the quote from Mr. Freshwater, that you referenced, I wasn’t too surprised by it since I knew the way he approach the proposal in 2003. <br /><br />The Empirical Infidel said “If I've misinterpreted the information in the articles, or if the articles themselves are flawed, I'll change that section based on any more accurate info I receive.”<br /><br />I wasn’t trying to suggest that paragraph was incorrect regarding how Mr. Freshwater testified.Sam Stickle (mountvernon1805)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12811421412092476907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post-61671628091231717492010-01-06T18:13:05.145-05:002010-01-06T18:13:05.145-05:00This is one train wreck I'm enjoying watching....This is one train wreck I'm enjoying watching. Nice post, thanks!FSM_Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300116015403954593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post-20924771039361142672010-01-06T18:10:14.664-05:002010-01-06T18:10:14.664-05:00Mr. Stickle, I wrote what you have quoted based on...Mr. Stickle, I wrote what you have quoted based on the articles printed on Dec. 9th and 12th in the Mount Vernon News. The article on the 9th quoted John Freshwater as saying, “I believe in creationism,” Freshwater told Hamilton, “but school is not the right environment to teach creationism.” That sounded to me like he opposed teaching creationism in school.<br /> <br />The Dec. 12th article states, "Freshwater, who has been testifying for about 2 1/2 days, categorically denied all of the allegations brought against him by the board of education." That suggested to me that he denied teaching creationism, since that was one of the allegations.<br /><br />If I've misinterpreted the information in the articles, or if the articles themselves are flawed, I'll change that section based on any more accurate info I receive.The Empirical Infidelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13791921727572467800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3034873584914590375.post-83186315943082543132010-01-06T16:06:23.904-05:002010-01-06T16:06:23.904-05:00The Empirical Infidel said “I was anxious to see h...The Empirical Infidel said “I was anxious to see how the blogs would deal with Freshwater's testimony a few weeks ago when he denied ever teaching creationism in his science classes and insisted that he was opposed to the teaching of creationism. The bloggers dealt with it as they would most scientific evidence; they ignored it.”<br /><br />Um, news flash—John Freshwater has stated since the summer of 2008 that he did not teach creationism in his classroom.Sam Stickle (mountvernon1805)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12811421412092476907noreply@blogger.com